Daniel Rock: 0:06

Born in Athens, Greece as an Air Force brat, Terry M. Brown came into the world with an imagination full of stories to tell. She now calls North Carolina coast home and a peaceful nature of the sea has been a great source of inspiration for her creativity. Now, unlike some of us, she didn't let 2020 get the best of her and Terry chose to go on an adventure that changed her outlook on life. She and her husband Bruce rode a tandem bicycle across the United States from Astoria, Oregon to Washington, D. C., successfully raising money for Toys for Tots, which is a fantastic charity, which I'm a big fan of. she learned she's stronger than she realized and is capable of doing anything she sets her mind to. And she's just recently launched a new inspirational book, 10 Little Rules for a Double Butted Adventure. Welcome, Terry. I'm really excited to have you on the show. Really, really, very excited.

Teri M Brown: 0:52

Thank you so much.

Daniel Rock: 0:53

would love to hear a little bit about your background and kind of your story as to how you got, how you got to where you are now. Mhm.

Teri M Brown: 1:06

out in Athens, Greece. I always loved the fact that I was not born in a military hospital, which gave me dual citizenship until I was 18. Um, and I, as a kid, boy, I milked that. That was great to have something different than the other kids. Thank you. People have asked me if I'm an author and so people have asked me like, did you always want to be an author? And the answer is yes, but I don't think that I recognized how much I wanted it because as a kid, I said I wanted to be an author, but I also said I wanted to be a heart surgeon and I wanted to be an Olympic ice skater and I can't. Yeah, Olympic ice skating is never something that was going to be part of me, okay? Like, I can't walk and chew gum, and I don't like the sight of blood, so I was never going to be a surgeon either. So I don't think I knew what that meant, but what I knew was I loved books. And I, I've had a love affair with books from, I don't ever remember not reading. I've always been a reader. Um, but then life kind of gets in the way and you, you know, you grow up and, and you go off to college and your parent says, writer, no, that isn't going to be a thing. You have to have something that will make money that you have to, you know, you're going to have to have a job, job. And so, and then I got married and I had children and it just, it just didn't happen. Um, I ended up as a single mom of four. I remarried and that marriage was a very bad mistake. Um, he was emotionally abusive. I lived in that marriage for 14 years because I didn't want to be divorced a second time. Um, I'm, I'm stubborn that way. During that time, I, I really began to know that I wanted to be an author, but I was too afraid. And I think when you're letting your soul out on the paper, you know, and your characters and your things and you're out there that you have to have like a safe place to land because, you know, The world can be kind of cruel, right? If they don't like something that you produced, it, you, and so you need someone who's going to like wrap you up in a warm hug. And I didn't have that. And so there was no way that I was going to write. Um, I got out of that relationship and the words started falling out of me and I wrote several manuscripts, but I was, I was very damaged. And there was no way that I could show what I was writing to anyone. I met my now husband and I was never getting married again. And that could be a whole nother podcast. Um, but he wanted to do this adventure. It was something he's wanted to do since 1976 was right across the United States on a bicycle. I wanted to do something big and bold because I thought I needed to prove to people that I still had some worth, some value. Turns out I needed to prove that to me, but at the time I thought others that I needed to prove that to. And I thought, Huh. Riding a bicycle across the United States. That, that could maybe prove a thing or two. So I asked him, is this something you're going to talk about until the day you die, or are you really doing it? And he said, no, I really want to do it. And I said, count me in. I had no intention of marrying him. I figured that we could just do an adventure together. And then, you know, if I didn't like him at the end of it, we could just part ways. Right? That's was in the end, we got married and then we did the adventure.

Daniel Rock: 4:19

Yeah.

Teri M Brown: 4:46

this was a dream. And for me, it was like huge. It was like well outside of my comfort zone and as we are coming the last couple of miles and I realized we've made it and it makes me get teary when I think about it. I thought, my gosh, I can do anything. I do anything I set my mind to. I just rode across the United States on a bicycle. I can do anything. What do I want to do? And I thought I want to be an author and that's kind of where it started. I finally then I tell everyone that that ride we raised money for toys for tots and I healed my heart.

Daniel Rock: 5:24

Um,

Teri M Brown: 5:26

You know, and I came out of it and just recognize it's no longer a matter of can I do something? It's a matter of do I want to put the energy into doing it? Is it something I really want? Because if I really want it. That I got it.

Daniel Rock: 5:40

I think there's a couple of things in there that you touched on that I think are really important. Um, and I've mentioned this before on a previous episode of the show that When I was sort of coming up with the idea and was just about to launch and was thinking about the concepts of this at home and stuff like that, there's a bar near where I live called The Filling Station. It's a pizza restaurant and bar and group in there. It's very Alabama, right? It's a great bar and I really like it. And the people are super friendly and I go there maybe once a week or so. And, um, I was sitting there just talking to some random guy at the bar just around the yard. What are you doing? We're talking about the podcast thing is, you know, you know, this is gonna be about the meaning of home. And what does home mean to people? And he kind of didn't get it. He was like, well, surely home is just where you go each night is where you sleep. And I said, to you. And I think your story says that, right? You in that 14 years, it doesn't sound like it felt like home because you never

Teri M Brown: 6:42

No,

Daniel Rock: 6:42

enough to be who you wanted to be.

Teri M Brown: 6:44

exactly. I, I have Children that lived with me there through that with my from my first husband and I did my best to make it home for them and make things as good and calm for them as possible. So I was taking on the brunt of the of the ugly. to keep things. But no, I was never I was never really safe there. The only time I felt safe was if he went away, you know, when he wasn't home, then it was safe.

Daniel Rock: 7:17

yeah, and I think that's I think that's a, a perception that a lot of people don't get. And I think, unfortunately, it's a perception that a lot of people live with. as a part of day to day life. You know, it's that and I think it's one of the reasons I wanted to do this show is to have those stories come out. So it's like actually the wonderful thing about talking to people is you hear all the different stories. Now

Teri M Brown: 7:42

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 7:42

wonderful to hear someone's gone through trauma. That's never a wonderful thing to hear. But it's a really important thing to show that there are is another side. You can

Teri M Brown: 7:52

Yeah. I tell people, I tell people all the time there is life on the other side, you know, and is it easy to get to it? Not necessarily. Is it going to take some work? Yes, it is. Are you going to get out of a bad relationship and immediately life is good? No, that's not the way it works, but there is, there can be joy and happiness and, and success and love and all of those things that you seek. It's there. You just have to figure out how to get from where you are to where it is.

Daniel Rock: 8:22

Yeah, and I think it's a really important thing. Also, someone who's been twice divorced. And when I met my current wife, um, and forever wife, I don't think she

Teri M Brown: 8:32

Yes,

Daniel Rock: 8:32

I say current life. Um, the It was, we had no intention of getting married either. Us. We'd both been through it. It, we would both kind of

Teri M Brown: 8:41

jaded.

Daniel Rock: 8:42

pieces. Like this was horrible. It was hard. It, you know,

Teri M Brown: 8:46

Not worth it.

Daniel Rock: 8:47

no. And then I think when you meet the right person, as I sincerely believe it had, that will change us because

Teri M Brown: 8:54

Yes, it does. Yeah,

Daniel Rock: 8:57

just makes sense. And, you know, I was in my mid forties when I met Katie and things happen. We now have a beautiful 18 month, old daughter and I now live in the South, the deep South, like the deep, deep South of America. And these are not things I thought were going to be in my plan.

Teri M Brown: 9:14

right, right.

Daniel Rock: 9:15

I do think it's I think one of the things I really like about stories is that being open to what life gives you and then taking those opportunities because I think life will give you the opportunities won't necessarily give you the answers. And I think if you grab hold of the opportunities, you get to choose what you make of it.

Teri M Brown: 9:34

Yeah,

Daniel Rock: 9:35

really love the story about, you know, getting on the bike and it's not your thing. It was a husband's dream, but it became yours as well. And I

Teri M Brown: 9:41

it did. And I, and I think for me, like I said, I felt that I needed to prove to people, you know, I was, I was, I was 56 when we did this and I thought I was 57 when we did this and I thought, you know, I don't have anything left, you know, I'm, I'm washed up old. I'm just going to just sit on the sidelines of life until I die. I mean, that's the way I felt because I'd been through 14 years of just yuck and I just couldn't see that there was going to be anything. Much better for me other than, well, I'll have some grandchildren I can enjoy and that's going to kind of be my life. And I started feeling like, no, maybe there's more to me, but I need to prove that I need to prove that I've got something left in me. And that trip proved to me that it was first of all me that needed proving. I don't think most people felt that way about me. I, it was me. And, and then it was like, wow, everything opened up. I learned so much when you're sitting on the, on a tandem bicycle hours every day, all the way across the United States. You have a lot of time to think and reflect and, and work stuff out that you don't in normal life because in normal life, you know, there's dishes that have to be done and groceries that have to be bought and people that need this and that and television shows and all of the other things that kind of like bombard you. And so you just take all of the yuck that you have and you just bury it down and never really deal with it. But on the back of a bike, there's you, you, you, and you and your mind is going and you just start sorting it out and fixing it as you go. It was, it was, I, I highly recommend that everybody in their life finds something big and bold, not necessarily an athletic adventure, but something that they don't really believe is. Something that they ever thought they could do and then do it like, like really test yourself, open up those bounds and like, just give it a go.

Daniel Rock: 11:42

Uh, it's interesting. I was my regular day job. We were talking a little bit Um, there's all the end of year wrap up because my team of mostly still based in New Zealand, one in Australia, one in the States, but a fairly mixed. And so death in New Zealand, it's summer. So over Christmas, they take two weeks off, you know, so they're off from the 20th until the sixth level. And, um, so we're doing a bit of an end of year wrap up and talk around these things. And I think, you know, the question that got asked in a team meeting is what have you learned from this year? Now, what? What's been your learning from this year? And I was thinking about him. If this has been a pretty big year, I've changed countries and, you know, done things have done a lot of travel again for work. And, know, my daughter's been growing up. My daughter's got some health challenges and some and some special needs. So, you know, there's been a lot of learning and

Teri M Brown: 12:31

Right?

Daniel Rock: 12:33

what I think is really interesting for it. And this is what sort of your big and bold thing is. it's something I've always believed is life's too short for what ifs. You know, and I think I would hate to go and go, well, what if I had, I'd much rather go core, I wish I hadn't.

Teri M Brown: 12:49

Yes,

Daniel Rock: 12:50

then what if I had, because I think. If you leave those questions on unanswered, that's where you miss out on happened, you know, choosing to move countries in my mid forties and, you know, leaving a

Teri M Brown: 13:02

that's a

Daniel Rock: 13:02

and close friend network,

Teri M Brown: 13:04

that's tough. That's scary.

Daniel Rock: 13:06

know,

Teri M Brown: 13:06

Yeah,

Daniel Rock: 13:07

in New Zealand where I was. And, you know, I did that when I was 22 as well. I moved from the UK to New Zealand. So I've done it twice and you kind of go, they're big steps. And I still remember 22 when I did it. My mom, who did not in any way, shape or form want me to leave England at 22. She was like, you got to do it because you're just going to go, what if? And I think the lesson that she said to me is nothing's undoable, right? You can always come home. You can always go back. You know, most things in life are not undoable. You can always

Teri M Brown: 13:36

yeah, you can, you can find a way to fix it or to move forward from it and say, okay, that didn't work. Where are we going from here? You know, there's very few things that are truly permanent. I no longer believe in bucket lists. I hear people talk about bucket list items and my thought is is either put it on your list for this year, get it off your list. You're either doing it or you're not doing it. Don't make it a bucket list. I don't want to die with anything on my list, you know, go ahead and do it because you don't know what's coming down the pike. So you put it on list and you say, well, I'm going to do that 17 years from now when we retire. You don't know that you get that. If it's something that means enough to you that you're going to put it on a 17 year long list, find a way to do it. Now, you know, I, I'm just my husband and I wrote across the United States during COVID summer. Okay, we canceled our trip and then decided, okay, things are opening up enough. We think we can make it. I am so glad we did. My husband now has cancer. We wouldn't be able to do this if we had waited. Yeah, if we had waited, there would have been no trip. And this trip is the thing that has gotten us through this whole cancer journey because we learned so much about one another and so much about ourselves and so many fabulous life lessons that we've been able to apply to going through this whole journey. And it would have, yeah, and that would have been a regret and then we would have sat around. Not only would he have cancer, but then we would also have the regret. Well, we never got to go across the United States on a bike.

Daniel Rock: 15:11

Yeah, and I think that's the thing you could deal with. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, as you approach things that haven't gone well, you don't want to have other things you'd wish you'd done.

Teri M Brown: 15:21

Yeah,

Daniel Rock: 15:21

Right. And I think that's that piece. And I think that's been really important to us with Lily and being around family and those sort of things. It's that we want to make sure that we're giving everybody the opportunities that we need us, our daughter, families, all of that sort of

Teri M Brown: 15:36

exactly.

Daniel Rock: 15:38

crucial thing. One of the other things we sort of talked about a little bit at the start before we started recording was your journey as a young source. So you stopped being an Air Force brat fairly young, you told me. But then there

Teri M Brown: 15:49

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 15:49

A fairly big step change. And obviously you had your Greek passport and all those things. So we'd love to hear a little bit more about that journey as well. And kind of what that did to your kind of how you felt about home going from this probably fairly nomadic lifestyle to Midwest to the

Teri M Brown: 16:06

Yeah, so I think, I think for me, home has always been where people that love me are. You know, like it didn't, it didn't have to be a place. Um, I know a lot of people and some of me kind of wishes that I had this like, oh, we always go home to grandma's house. It's the family home. It's been in the home for generations. Everybody goes there at the end of the year. We all get. We don't have that. My family did a lot more moving. Even my extended family did a lot more moving there. There isn't a location to go to. And so because of that, we kind of more or less like created traditions that you did wherever you happen to be. So if you are, you know, whether you're in Ohio or whether you're in North Carolina or wherever, there are certain things that you do. There are certain cookies that you bake at Christmas and there are certain, there's just things that you do. And so I kind of feel like home doesn't really have to be about the space. As much as it's about a feeling like I even felt like my husband and I had home going across the United States He and I were together. We would put up our tent where we were, what we were experiencing. That was that was home for them. You know, we would FaceTime kids and and do those kinds of things. But when I was 15, so we'd been in Ohio for some time. I was very happy. I came home from school 1 day, the middle of my freshman year. in high school and my house was for sale and my parents had decided that dad was tired of the winter. He was tired of working for his dad. He wanted a fresh start. I think he was having a midlife crisis, but you know, whatever. And the next thing, you know, we've moved from Ohio to North Carolina, a place I had never even visited. And I was in the middle of my freshman year and I hated my parents for several months. I was,

Daniel Rock: 18:00

I

Teri M Brown: 18:00

I was one, yes, I was one very unhappy camper. My parents told me that if after a year, if my brother and I still were unhappy, that they would move back to Ohio. And I had every intention of remaining unhappy for one year so we could go back home. I mean, I had zero intention of assimilating. I did not want to be there. Um, and it was a difficult move. The, the accent was very different. There were actually people who spoke to me and I had no idea what they were saying. Um, There were expressions in Ohio. You never sit in North Carolina. When you say hello, you say, Hey, how are you? Hey, well, up in Ohio, you only say, Hey, when you're angry. Hey, get out of there. Hey, what are you doing? Well, for the first two or three days at school, I was a nervous wreck. Hey, Hey, Hey, you know, like, what am I doing? Am I in the wrong spot? Right? Um, it was, you know, And, and you're trying to make friends in the middle of a year. And I dressed all wrong in where I lived in Ohio. Everyone dressed up for school. You tucked in your shirt, you wore khakis, you wore little espadrille shoes. You had a little scarf in your hair and I get down here and everyone's wearing jeans and t shirts. All the girls have boy Levi's on. They're wearing converse tennis shoes and t shirts that hanging out. And I show up on my first day looking like the queen, you know? And it was like, Oh, I went home and told my mom. We got to go to the store and buy me some, some boys Levi's and she said, you look terrible in those. And it was like, not a problem.

Daniel Rock: 19:34

It's about assimilation at this

Teri M Brown: 19:35

Yes, it's, it has nothing, that's nothing to do with that, you know? And so yeah, it was very hard, but. All it took was about six weeks in, I met a girl who took me under her wing and introduced me to all of her friends. And before long, I was going on camping trips and I was, you know, I had a family, you know, I had a home and all of a sudden it was like, okay, I'm okay. Well, now at this point, I've lived in North Carolina since 1979. And when people say, where are you from? I don't know what to tell them because in North Carolina, if you weren't born here, you're not from here, but I'm from here, like in my mind, I know sooner belong in Ohio anymore. I mean, there are a few relatives, distant relatives there. Um, I wouldn't mind going back for like, you know, a four day vacation, but I there's nothing there that is me anymore. So, you know, I just think home is, is it's where you make it,

Daniel Rock: 20:40

I

Teri M Brown: 20:40

right?

Daniel Rock: 20:41

could not agree more. And that's battle in some ways. Um, my brain, I go for it. So I was lived in the UK till I was 22. I moved New Zealand and spent. The better part of 23 years living there. And now I live here. So I live here. This is home. This is where my family is, where my daughter is, where my wife is, you know, my, my extended, my, my immediate family are in Spain or the UK. I go back to the UK couple, two to three times a year at the moment for work. And it does not feel like home.

Teri M Brown: 21:14

It's not home.

Daniel Rock: 21:15

what's really interesting is. here. I get asked quite a lot. You know, where are you from? You know? And after I wanted to not kill the person who said, are you from Australia? Which for an Englishman who's lived in New Zealand for 20 years is about the

Teri M Brown: 21:30

That's okay. Okay.

Daniel Rock: 21:32

I've said that a couple of times on the show, and it's like it doesn't get easier. Um, but then there's that. Well, I'm from the UK. That's where I grew up and I still support, you know, all the English sports teams and all of that kind of stuff. But New Zealand is probably the

Teri M Brown: 21:50

More your home. Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 21:53

But what was really interesting for me on that is I went back there. for work. And it was a fleeting visit. I didn't really catch up with any friends. It was very odd, but it didn't feel like I thought it was going to when I went back for work a couple of weeks ago, a few at the start of November. So it is very, I think that that whole where am I from home is

Teri M Brown: 22:12

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 22:13

at

Teri M Brown: 22:13

People ask me, people will say, where are you from? And it's like, so I always do that. So if you're asking where I was born, that would be Athens, Greece. If you're asking where I did a good part of my younger years growing up, that would be Ohio. If you're asking where I feel like I'm from, that would be North Carolina, but I've also lived in many locations in North Carolina. So it's not like I've been in one spot. I've lived in many places in North Carolina. And, and so where am I from? Where would you like me to be from? You tell me, you tell me the answer you're looking for and then I'll give you where I'm from. So yeah.

Daniel Rock: 22:56

So tell me a little bit more about, um, your book and kind of how

Teri M Brown: 23:00

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 23:01

because obviously you, you did the tan and ride in 2020 and then

Teri M Brown: 23:06

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 23:07

of novels

Teri M Brown: 23:08

Yes. Right.

Daniel Rock: 23:10

then sort of 2024, written the book about what happened in 2020. So talk to me a little bit about that, how that came about and kind of, yeah. Tell me a little bit more about the

Teri M Brown: 23:21

Yeah. So, so the book is, it's 10 little rules. It's things that I learned about life and myself while riding across the United States. And I tell people, you'll learn a lot about the, the trip, the things, but it is not a travel log. If you want to know a day by day, travel log, I kept a blog, have at it. You can read everything. You can see every time I cried on the side of the road. I mean, you know, you've got it all, but this is more like what, yeah. When I walked away from it, what did I walk away with? What were those lessons in that knowledge? I had every intention of writing this book from the beginning. I knew when I wrote that I would want to write a book about this trip. I didn't recognize until I got home that I had these lessons that I had learned. I didn't know that was going to happen when we started out. I knew I would write something. I didn't, I didn't recognize this is what it would be. And I actually wrote.

Daniel Rock: 24:19

Okay.

Teri M Brown: 24:27

place to publish it. I, I felt like it, it doesn't really belong with my novels. My novels are historical fiction and they're completely, you know, made up stuff in my head and I love writing that and will write more of those. This was something different and I thought it needed, I needed it to have a good home. So, you know, talking about homes, I needed it to, to feel like it wasn't just a book stuffed in with a bunch of other books where it was going to get lost in the crowd. And I met a woman

Daniel Rock: 24:57

it

Teri M Brown: 24:58

written a book called Ten Little Rules for a Blissy Life.

Daniel Rock: 25:02

the

Teri M Brown: 25:03

she lived here and then moved away and we had kept in touch. And I found out that, Through another friend, and I didn't even realize it, that she had a little publishing company called Ten Little Rules, and she was accumulating

Daniel Rock: 25:17

there's

Teri M Brown: 25:18

people that had done things that they felt like would make a good book on, like, life lessons, things that you learn, etc. And I thought, that Sounds like it might be a fit. Well, I, I still have a little bit of imposter syndrome and I was afraid to bring it up to her because I thought, you know, oh, I don't want to like, I don't want her to feel obligated and I don't want it to ruin any kind of weird. I don't want it to be weird. And I finally got to the point where it was right now. Your book is not published. If you talk to her and she doesn't want the manuscript, your book is still not published. Nothing has changed. Okay.

Daniel Rock: 25:57

Yeah.

Teri M Brown: 25:58

Right. If you do talk to her and she does want the book,

Daniel Rock: 26:02

Oh,

Teri M Brown: 26:16

got back to me right away. She said, I've always wondered if you were going to write a book about that trip. I would love to see what you've got. So I told her, I said, it's, it's sad right now. Like it is not. I would never show this to someone in this format, but let me show you what I have. And you tell me if you think that, that we could massage this into, and she wrote back and she said, it's not going to take much massage. I love it. Let's do it. And so I knew right away. So, you know, talking about homes, this book, I had taught, I had thought it was going to be lessons learned. And now it's 10 little rules because that's what there's, but it just worked and it was exactly, it was exactly what I needed to do. And then I was able to, to go through and find that the things that I felt would benefit people the most, like what, what did I really learn? And for instance, one of my things is never quit on a bad day.

Daniel Rock: 27:12

yeah.

Teri M Brown: 27:13

So we had a horrible day. There was a day that was so bad. We went 70 miles, which is on a tandem bicycle is a very long day and it was hot and it was hilly when we had been told it was going to be relatively flat. We had three flat tires and it was, it was a horrible day. And by the time we finished and the wind was blowing the wrong direction. So we were into the wind the whole day. And by the time we were done, we were like halfway through Montana. And I thought, I'm not having fun. I hate this. We're done. I'm just, I'm not,

Daniel Rock: 27:49

Why

Teri M Brown: 27:50

I'm not yet. I'm not. Yeah. I'm not doing this anymore. And I was writing a blog and I had put the blog out and immediately I had a friend reach out to me who said, I think that what you've done so far is amazing and if you decide to quit now, nobody would fault you. However, I have some advice. Don't quit on a bad day because you'll always wonder, could I have gone on would, you know, would one more day have made a difference? She said, no, that this has been a bad day. Ride a few more days. And if at the end of give yourself a time frame, you still say, this is not fun. Then you're making a decision based on facts and not feelings. Well, the next day was fabulous. It was a beautiful day. We flew through the day. The wind was at our back. There was a storm behind us and it literally blew us into the next town. And it was, it was amazing. And we didn't quit and we made it the whole way across and I have used that idea of don't quit on a bad day over and over and over again, where you think, I can't do this anymore. And it's like, and today's a bad day. So, today's Monday, if on Friday, I still feel this way. Then we'll change course. And sometimes you still feel that way and you decide, yes, indeed quitting is exactly what is the right thing to do. And other times you realize, no, it was just a bad day. I

Daniel Rock: 29:24

Yeah.

Teri M Brown: 29:24

don't we all have them? There are days that I don't want to be married. There are days I don't want to be a mother. There are days that I don't, but I really want to be all those things. Right.

Daniel Rock: 29:33

I, I, I think that is a wonderful sentiment and it's probably a great sentiment to finish on, to be perfectly honest, which is the

Teri M Brown: 29:39

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 29:40

quit on a bad day. I think that is you think about the things you might miss out on because you give

Teri M Brown: 29:46

Yeah.

Daniel Rock: 29:47

get hard, you know, it's, yeah, it's, I think that

Teri M Brown: 29:50

And like I said, it's okay, it's okay to give up. It is okay to decide to determine what I'm doing right now makes no sense for me anymore, you know, and it's okay. Like, if you had moved to New Zealand and decided you really didn't like it. It would have been okay to say made a poor decision. It's okay to go home,

Daniel Rock: 30:09

Yeah.

Teri M Brown: 30:13

think, oh, if I had stuck it out, would it, you know, so it's that idea of giving yourself more time to not quit in a, in the moment of emotion, you know, when things really are crappy, we all want to quit. I mean, I don't know anybody who goes through something really crappy and goes, woohoo, let's do that again. Right. And so I think that's the idea of, of, can you take a step back, give yourself a little more space. And then make an actual decision with facts instead of just this emotional, it's been a horrible day. We had 3 flat tires. The wind's been against us. I'm so exhausted. I still have to figure out how to get across the street to eat at a stupid, greasy burger place. I just want to go home. I mean, you know, so

Daniel Rock: 31:01

I hear you and thank you so much for coming on Terry. It's been

Teri M Brown: 31:05

you for having me.

Daniel Rock: 31:06

Um, I will include a link to the book in our show notes. Um,

Teri M Brown: 31:11

Fantastic.

Daniel Rock: 31:12

thank you so much for sharing your journey and it's been a really fun conversation. I've really enjoyed it today. So thank you again so much.

Teri M Brown: 31:18

Thank you.

Daniel Rock: 31:18

thank you all for listening to this episode of wherever I lay my hat. Um, it's been great fun. I really enjoy doing these shows. If you would like to share your story, please reach out again, Dan at wherever I lay my hat. com and please do the usual things like subscribe, hit the notification bell on YouTube, a review or a comment on Apple podcast Amazon music that all helps the show grow and helps us get coverage and sell it, tell more stories. So again, thank you so much and have fun.